When she ends the discussion, it's not because I've made a specific point. It's because I've just asked her to clarify her position. Clarifying her position would almost certainly mean admitting that chiropractic is quackery.
It started with me posting something on their site, I can't remember quite what I put but I think I was accusing them of abusing public gullibility by claiming to use chiropractic to treat swine flu. The post I was commenting on is here: http://www.chiropracticlifeblog.com/chiropractic-and-swine-flu/.
You'll notice from following the link that she did not allow my comments to be posted. @Karen: I will never censor your posts on my blog.
FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Thankyou for your comments.
Once in a lifetime a shift in thinking that challenges the status quo comes into being. These new revelations require us to either resist the change or adapt (most of us tend to resist).
The German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer did a good job of summarizing the life cycle of a new philosophy, when he said (describing the revelation of “new” truth):
“All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
New ideas, philosophies and revelations come in all shapes and sizes. The talented ones among us are quick to spot the truth, embrace it and adapt and take advantage of it - others stay stuck in thinking that the world is still flat!!
Our own five children were born at home, all have had chiropractic adjustments since a few hours after birth and they have never been to a medical doctor for anything as they have regular (every week) chiropractic care to remove any nerve interference so that the brain and the body can communicate effectively and heal itself naturally.
The ages of our children add up to over 120 years - obviously that is a lot older than you and our philosophy is stronger than ever. People have been trying to get rid of Chiropractors for ages, ever since 1895 but it is now the third largest healing profession in the world.
Do yourself a favour and get that intellectual subluxation checked by a chiropractor...............
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
So to summarise your argument...
Every so often someone comes up with an idea that everyone thinks is nonsense, but in the end turns out to be true.
I've come up with something that sounds like nonsense, therefore it will turn out to be true.
And I'm so confident that it will turn out to be true that I'm experimenting with it on my children.
Correct?
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Maybe you like to call it an experiment - the ancient Egyptians were doing it too - how long do you need the experiment to last?
Our patients seem to be delighted as they refer their friends and family to our clinic and write testimonials as well.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
A test doesn't have to last long, it just has to be properly
conducted. To date, well conducted trials of chiropractic for anything
other than lower back pain have clearly shown it to be utter nonsense.
All you have is anecdotes.
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
What we have is a healthy family and healthy patients that love to come for their regular adjustments to keep their spine free from interference so that the brain can communicate with the rest of the body effectively and heal itself naturally, as it was designed to do.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
Yes, but what evidence do you have that your family and patients are healthy because of your quackery? There is absolutely no credible evidence even for the existence of a sublaxation, let alone that it is a source of ill health.
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Morning Simon,
I'm glad you are enjoying our continuing conversation and learning about the things you do not understand.
I am up early to get ready to go and serve more people who want what we do, who come back and pay for our services and who write testimonials for us to share with others because they want people to know about true health too. That is all the evidence that we require to know we are doing a great job - as for our family, they do the same wherever they live in the world because they understand the power of the nervous system and how that when it is free from interference the body can heal itself naturally and you can reach your fullest potential!
We trust the wisdom of the ancients and have proved for ourselves - we require no further proof and nor do our patients.
After five years of study chiropractors are well placed to understand things that escape many but we are grateful that governments acknowledge our contribution to society.
Chiropractic is the third largest healing profession in the world. Medicine, dentistry and chiropractic.
Because of the growing number of chiropractors (the new Barcelone College of Chiropractic is opening in October) I can only assume that the number of chiropractic patients will increase.
Just this last week another one of our patients has decided to quit his job as a lecturer and study chiropractic at 49 years of age. Personal experience is a wonderful testimony.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
"Personal experience is a wonderful testimony."
That's really the whole point of what you've been saying all along. However, personal testimony is problematic for several reasons:
-Regression to the mean (people tend to seek treatment when they are at their worse point, it is likely they will improve afterwards).
-Placebo effect.
-Availability error (patients who don't get better don't generally go back - so most of the people you see are those who did get better, so positive evidence is more "available" to you than negative.)
-The way the brain is known to pick up patterns that don't exist.
What have you done to ensure you haven't made any of these mistakes?
The only way I know is to run a proper trial with proper stats. But if you have another way, I'd be interested to hear it.
Simon.
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Hi Simon,
Our clinic is open from 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday and Saturdays as well, and I and our chiropractic assistants have a full-time job seeing to all our patients and everything that needs to be done.
We are happy to leave trials and stats for those who want or need them.
We are too busy taking care of people who want what we have to offer - interestingly many of those came to see us as skeptics!
I truly hope one day you give yourself the opportunity to feel what it is like to live a life with a nervous system free of interference.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
Hi Karen,
Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been extremely busy.
I think it makes good sense when engaging in a discussion such as this to take stock and look at the points we agree on. I think we agree on the following - can you confirm or deny?
1. You have many happy clients (Of course I can't say this is true as I haven't met them, but I think this is likely).
2. Based on testimony, anecdote & experience, you believe that your treatment is effective.
3. It is theoretically possible that reliance on anecdote or experience could lead any practitioner into believing that something works when it does not. I assume you agree with this in principle because you did not argue against it. Also, it's fairly obvious - bloodletting and trepanning used to be quite commonplace before we started testing properly. Can you confirm you agree?
4. Chiropractic has not been accepted by mainstream scientist for anything other than lower backpain, because of an absence of evidence proving its efficacy.
There isn't much point in arguing what we agree on, so I want to make sure these points are covered. Can you confirm before we continue?
Thanks,
Simon
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Hi Simon,
Being busy is a good thing!
Chiropractic is a science, art and philosophy which continues to grow and support those who want to live a vital life.
Vitalistic chiropractic has no reliance on being accepted by mainstream anyone...........................
Deep within the body dwells innate intelligence that needs no acceptance, only Truth.
Our patients come seeking Truth and find what they have been looking for all their lives.
The sole purpose of a Chiropractor is to remove subluxations (nerve interference) to allow the body to heal itself naturally.
We ask nothing more, nothing less and embrace each challenge that comes our way.
I am glad you have an enquiring mind.
I hope it serves you well.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
But you didn't answer my question
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Morning Simon,
Very observant! I'm a peace loving person.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
Hi Karen,
Yes - peace loving indeed. But I feel the conflict you are trying to avoid is an internal one.
From reading the points so far, it would be very difficult for you not to agree with them. Indeed, you've implied you do within your other emails.
And yet, you are aware if you do agree to them you will be forced to acknowledge to yourself that:
(a) You may have unknowingly been operating a practice that sells treatments that don't work.
(b) Now you are aware of this, you have a duty to your customers to check your facts.
So your tactic is to bury your head in the sand, avoid thinking about it. It's much better to carry on selling quack treatments to your patients in ignorance than to suddenly come to the realisation you have been accidentally exploiting the sick for years.
Many thanks,
Simon
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Dear Simon,
Thankyou for your concerns.
Kind regards,
Karen
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FROM: Me.
TO: Chiropractic Life
Karen,
It is a great pity that you do not also share concern for your customer's welfare.
Simon.
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FROM: Chiropractic Life
TO: Me.
Dear Simon,
Thankyou for your continued interest.
Kind regards,
Karen
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